20 Franc Coins Of The LMU

[CollectForFun]

On 02/07/2022 at 04:28, ryanp007 said:

Today (recently, lol) I received...

This fantastic and scarce coin which for the time being is the crown jewel of my LMU collection.

The coin is an 1848 Republic of Venice (San Marco) 20 Lire. A one-year edition only, as the revolutions of 1848-49 sweeping Europe generally, and the Italian States in particular, turned out to be fairly short lived.

A total of 5,210 of these absolutely breathtaking 20 Lire coins were minted (I believe in Turin, but I haven't confirmed). The obverse is the Lion of St. Mark, and value within wreath on the reverse.

One thing that I have noticed with graded pieces is there is a prevalence of Prooflike designations for these coins. I've tried to capture the reflective, prooflike nature of this coin but its really difficult to do in photos. In hand, it is amazing to see. A very, very beautiful mirrorlike finish. Angle it in the sunlight the right way and you could signal an airplane with it! One of the nicest coins I've had the privilege to add to the LMU collection and one of the very few raw coins I would consider sending off for grading to validate and conserve it.

 

 

This is such an amazing coin! I don't think it can be surpassed by any other from the 20 francs category. And also condition of the coin is great! Huge congratulations on this acquisition.

Having quickly checked recent auction archives it does not seem this coin was bought at an auction, or was it?

My only concern with grading this coin would be that those hairlines, mainly on the reverse, could be seen as a sign of cleaning and you get a details grade. Or if they determine that there are some marks from previous mounting (as many of these coins were mounted). But in any case, I don't think any potential imperfections affect the overall eye appeal too much which I am sure must be even better when holding the coin in hands!

By the way, I see no reason why these coins shouldn't have been minted in Venice directly.

(I hope you don't mind that I quoted your post within this thread...)

[augur]

3 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

By the way, I see no reason why these coins shouldn't have been minted in Venice directly.

You are correct, they were minted in Venice. 
https://marenghi.collectorsonline.org/moneta/M-27/12

[ryanp007]

5 hours ago, CollectForFun said:

This is such an amazing coin! I don't think it can be surpassed by any other from the 20 francs category. And also condition of the coin is great! Huge congratulations on this acquisition.

Having quickly checked recent auction archives it does not seem this coin was bought at an auction, or was it?

My only concern with grading this coin would be that those hairlines, mainly on the reverse, could be seen as a sign of cleaning and you get a details grade. Or if they determine that there are some marks from previous mounting (as many of these coins were mounted). But in any case, I don't think any potential imperfections affect the overall eye appeal too much which I am sure must be even better when holding the coin in hands!

By the way, I see no reason why these coins shouldn't have been minted in Venice directly.

(I hope you don't mind that I quoted your post within this thread...)

Hi - no, I don't mind at all! Those are great observations that you make. 

I think you're right with the hairlines, my gut tells me there is a good chance it would grade as details due to possible cleaning. Although having had the chance to really look this thing over, the eye appeal isn't impaired much at all. When buying raw coins of this age I personally assume always that I'll find some sign of cleaning if I study it closely. Unless its something truly mint state, and for this particular coin MS would be way too expensive for my budget!

You're right too about the mounting, but I've scoured over every inch of this coin and can find nothing that indicates a previous mount. So it's either so faint I missed it, or it was never mounted. Either way it works out to the same thing for my personal enjoyment of the coin 

And no, this coin wasn't from auction, it was from a coin dealer. Ironically, located in Canada, not terribly far from me! Sometimes its a small world.

[ryanp007]

2 hours ago, augur said:

You are correct, they were minted in Venice. 
https://marenghi.collectorsonline.org/moneta/M-27/12

Thank you! Thats a great resource! 

[Amoulsda12]

These are not actually LMU spec coins but as its been referred to on this excellent thread before, here is the Montenegro 20 Perpera gold coin.

There are 2 versions of this denomination.

On the left, the commemorative issue coin to mark the 50 Anniversary of the Accession of King Nicola 1. Left facing laureate head portrait.

On the right, the standard circulation 20 Perpera distinguished by a right facing, bare head portrait. Reported mintages of both coins c. 30,000.

These are not in the finest condition but both coins are very hard to find now in any condition.

 

 

[whuamai]

Daterun of:

20 Francs / 8 Florin Hungary / Austria

Minted every year from 1870-1891

Most mintages are about 300.000 per year.

Most of them were minted in Kremnitz, Skovakia (KB mintmark), and a few in Romania (GYF).

I am missing: 1873, 1879, 1886 and some variations. If anyone has one of them for sale or trade, please let me know.

[augur]

Managed to source the rather elusive 1888 Venezuela 100 Bolívares with the help of @Lr103

The mint bloom or toning is quite considerable but cannot hide the ample lustre remaining in this popular vintage

[Toshunya86]

Got a few LMU on my last sale topic on the buy and sell EU forum (ungraded)

[CollectForFun]

On 24/07/2022 at 10:32, whuamai said:

Daterun of:

20 Francs / 8 Florin Hungary / Austria

Minted every year from 1870-1891

By the way, I liked your post long ago as it's a really nice collection but have just now realised that you are probably not aware that there's also an 1892 one?

1892 is the year of the monetary reform in Austria/Hungary and introduction of the new currency, but these Hungarian 20 francs were still minted with that year and unlike their Austrian counterparts, they are not just restrikes.

So one more to go... ☺️

[Britannia47]

Just found out what LMU stands for  - ‘Latin Monetary Union’ Excuse my ignorance! 😄…….

[modofantasma]

2 minutes ago, Britannia47 said:

Just found out what LMU stands for  - ‘Latin Monetary Union’ Excuse my ignorance! 😄…….

I only discovered this term a while after I'd bought my first few too 🤣 

[augur]

3 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Just found out what LMU stands for

 

3 hours ago, modofantasma said:

I only discovered this term a while after I'd bought my first few too

Well actually it’s the Union Latine (Monétaire) if you are francophone and in Italy they are called Marenghi. I eluded to this in a previous post and their definition is far broader and includes many modern issues that completely evade our attention. There is soon to be held a special auction just covering that topic:

https://auctions.nomismaweb.com/en/cat/94/75/marenghi-collection/1/

[Britannia47]

On 05/03/2018 at 17:56, Micky9776 said:

 

https://coinweek.com/world-coins/the-latin-monetary-union-gold-coins/

 

I found this link by Micky9776 and the connection with the 20 Franc piece. Fascinating history of the ‘Union’ which ever order the wording is, and the coins that go with it. Unfortunately I will have to stick with sovereigns….!
Thank-you augur

[whuamai]

On 14/10/2022 at 09:59, CollectForFun said:

By the way, I liked your post long ago as it's a really nice collection but have just now realised that you are probably not aware that there's also an 1892 one?

1892 is the year of the monetary reform in Austria/Hungary and introduction of the new currency, but these Hungarian 20 francs were still minted with that year and unlike their Austrian counterparts, they are not just restrikes.

So one more to go... ☺️

Thank you! Actually I made a mistake and youre right. One more to go. I also decided to try to get both mint marks of the 1870 and 1871.

So now i am looking for: 1879, 1986 , 1892, 1870 KB, 1871 KB

Gonna take me a while, but i'll be collecting patiently.

Edited October 15, 2022 by whuamai

[stefffana]

Hi, dear friends!

What do you think about these three coins issued for Luxembourg? They have the same specifications as any 20 Francs LMU, are described as 20 Francs on Numista, but the face value of 20 it is not written on the coin.

Will qualify for a respectable LMU collection?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia28754.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £565 plus shipping: 

https://www.ma-shops.com/svcollector/item.php?id=2035

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia49018.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £372 plus shipping:

 https://www.ma-shops.com/kuenker/item.php?id=26419.

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces207242.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £346 plus shipping: 

https://www.ma-shops.com/kuenker/item.php?id=26420.

 

Any thoughts will be much appreciated.🤗

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by stefffana

[whuamai]

21 hours ago, stefffana said:

Hi, dear friends!

What do you think about these three coins issued for Luxembourg? They have the same specifications as any 20 Francs LMU, are described as 20 Francs on Numista, but the face value of 20 it is not written on the coin.

Will qualify for a respectable LMU collection?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia28754.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £565 plus shipping: 

https://www.ma-shops.com/svcollector/item.php?id=2035

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/exonumia49018.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £372 plus shipping:

 https://www.ma-shops.com/kuenker/item.php?id=26419.

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces207242.html, for sale now on Ma-Shop for £346 plus shipping: 

https://www.ma-shops.com/kuenker/item.php?id=26420.

 

Any thoughts will be much appreciated.🤗

 

 

 

They have quite low mintages. Some people add them to their lmu collection and some don't. It's up to you.

I have the last type for a bit less if you need

 

[CollectForFun]

On 18/11/2022 at 20:49, stefffana said:

Hi, dear friends!

What do you think about these three coins issued for Luxembourg? 

Will qualify for a respectable LMU collection?

In any case, they are charming coins in their own right ☺️

[stefffana]

10 minutes ago, CollectForFun said:

In any case, they are charming coins in their own right ☺️

Yes, indeed! Congratulations!🤗

[ilovesilverireallydo]

For those looking for lower premium LMUs to complete date runs - especially Napoleons 3 - I have added a sales post that may be of interest...