Sovereign Errors, Overdates and Varieties

[sovereignsteve]

On 08/09/2019 at 10:35, Lindeman said:

Thanks guys. Good to learn the difference @sovereignsteve. I’m glad I got it graded still because at least I will remember why I graded this one out of my (limited ) shield collection. So Steve - if I was ever to sell this coin, what would be the correct terminology “ double struck on the date “? 

 

Just now, sg86 said:

Yes I was going to say @Lindeman this isn't an error or variety it's just been double struck, very common.

It's actually rare in my experience to see one that is doubled on the date but not elsewhere on the legend; usually seen on 3 - 5 or so consecutive letter.

I've no idea why it happens just to part of the coin face (letters, numbers) and not the whole coin. You don't see any of the face detail similarly doubled.

[TheGoldSovereign]

4 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It's actually rare in my experience to see one that is doubled on the date but not elsewhere on the legend; usually seen on 3 - 5 or so consecutive letter.

I've no idea why it happens just to part of the coin face (letters, numbers) and not the whole coin. You don't see any of the face detail similarly doubled.

To be honest I've not looked for dates doubled and legends not, they just occur randomly in my experience and really not at all interesting (for me anyway), so I've not looked further than that.

I've seen 3 letters of a legend, whole legends, half legend, dates etc, so sure it's not going to be so rare just being the date

[TheGoldSovereign]

Right, back to a real error, what are your thoughts on this then!?

One is clearly the recorded 4/inverted 4, but the other I cannot decide on, maybe just 4 over lower 4?

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by sg86

[sovereignsteve]

19 minutes ago, BullionForLess said:

1871 Victoria Young Head Shield Back Gold Sovereign

Nice coin but there again, all shields are nice😊

Not sure what your point is; this is a thread about overdates, errors and varieties.😉

Curious though, are they the same coin? The colour is different and the obverse is a lot more worn than the reverse.

[CardiffGold]

On 05/10/2019 at 16:55, sovereignsteve said:

Nice coin but there again, all shields are nice😊

Not sure what your point is; this is a thread about overdates, errors and varieties.😉

Curious though, are they the same coin? The colour is different and the obverse is a lot more worn than the reverse.

Yes they're the same coin... Just maybe something wrong with Images (or maybe the camera setting is too warm on the other pic)

[TheGoldSovereign]

On 07/10/2019 at 15:55, BullionForLess said:

Yes they're the same coin... Just maybe something wrong with Images (or maybe the camera setting is too warm on the other pic)

wrong thread

[augur]

On 09/09/2019 at 16:36, sg86 said:

[this one] I cannot decide on, maybe just 4 over lower 4?

It seems more that a different size/font was used and then corrected. 4 over 4?

[TheGoldSovereign]

46 minutes ago, augur said:

It seems more that a different size/font was used and then corrected. 4 over 4?

Not sure how likely a different font would be used, maybe a smaller/half sov 4 yea, but i'm leaning towards it being 4/lower 4, so will record it as that for now.

[sovereignsteve]

The first 4 stamp definitely  appears  to have a smaller serif  at the bottom, but lower, yes.

Edited October 17, 2019 by sovereignsteve

[TheGoldSovereign]

Now i've seen this error on the F recorded I believe before as F/A or something silly, quite a few of the recorded errors I've changed in my reference as I just don't agree, things like T/V in victoria which is clearly just a tilted T. What do you think, is this just an F over higher F?

Edit: added some detail from the Bentley collector who also seems to lean towards a higher F

Picture isn't my best, I'm trying to see if I can get the errors using the copystand axial lighting method but it's not working out as well as my older tripod method, just this will take a long time to keep changing the setup around per coin

Nice to get the errors on a nicer coin though, this coin actually has 3 errors.

 

offtopic: this coin and some others I've had has some really sticky material that ultrasonic won't remove, best method to try and boil it?

Edited October 18, 2019 by sg86

[Zhorro]

19 minutes ago, sg86 said:

What do you think, is this just an F over higher F?

Looks like an "F" over "V" to me (and a double "E").

[TheGoldSovereign]

8 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Looks like an "F" over "V" to me (and a double "E").

They've measured the prongs and apparently too narrow for a V or an A

I really don't want to record something wrong, but I think i'll have to put a note on this coin or something

[Zhorro]

3 minutes ago, sg86 said:

They've measured the prongs and apparently too narrow for a V or an A

I really don't want to record something wrong, but I think i'll have to put a note on this coin or something

To me, it is certainly not "F" over "F".

[TheGoldSovereign]

5 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

To me, it is certainly not "F" over "F".

What's your reasoning for these bars? This is what I see all the time for higher letters, this cannot be found on an A or V punch.

When a character is overpunched the letter underneath isn't complete most of the time, maybe the first punch was broken or similar, I don't think a higher F can be ruled out at all as it's the most likely scenario. The E before it was too high, the F was too high and they corrected both

I wish I could photograph properly from my microscope so you could see what i'm seeing

Even the middle part of the F has the same shape, nothing like and A or V bar which is straight.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by sg86

[TheGoldSovereign]

Forgot I had an E-mount adapter for my scope, I need to find tune this as the plane is clear not 100% adjacent but for now this is the clearest I can get, I hope to be able to get closer than this in the future for error photos

If you open the image fully you can zoom right in, its 6000px

 

 

[Zhorro]

15 minutes ago, sg86 said:

What's your reasoning for these bars? This is what I see all the time for higher letters, this cannot be found on an A or V punch.

When a character is overpunched the letter underneath isn't complete most of the time, maybe the first punch was broken or similar, I don't think a higher F can be ruled out at all as it's the most likely scenario. The E before it was too high, the F was too high and they corrected both

I wish I could photograph properly from my microscope so you could see what i'm seeing

Even the middle part of the F has the same shape, nothing like and A or V bar which is straight.

 

Good question!  I was wondering if it could be a "y" but I guess you would expect the prongs at the top to be flatter (as you would also expect with a "V" or an inverted "A").

[TheGoldSovereign]

Just now, Zhorro said:

Good question!  I was wondering if it could be a "y" but I guess you would expect the prongs at the top to be flatter (as you would also expect with a "V" or an inverted "A").

Plus the fact that a Y is never used 🤣

Look at my scope image and see what I mean by the middle bar from the F

[Zhorro]

13 minutes ago, sg86 said:

Forgot I had an E-mount adapter for my scope, I need to find tune this as the plane is clear not 100% adjacent but for now this is the clearest I can get, I hope to be able to get closer than this in the future for error photos

If you open the image fully you can zoom right in, its 6000px

 

 

This is a superb picture - but I don't think I am going to be able to help.  I suppose it could be a small "F" but some of the top would have had to have been chipped away?

[TheGoldSovereign]

1 minute ago, Zhorro said:

This is a superb picture - but I don't think I am going to be able to help.  I suppose it could be a small "F" but some of the top would have had to have been chipped away?

Thanks, I guess for now it'll remain an unsolved mystery! When I've got through the 100s of other errors I'll come back to the trickier ones and do some further research maybe with electron scopes!

[TheGoldSovereign]

Need opinions on this one!

[sovereignsteve]

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do you have any rare overdate victoria sovereigns? I would buy as many as you have at that price.

[Yorky]

Evening all. 
I was wondering if anyone had seen an 1872 Queen Victoria young head die cast number 1? 
I believe these are rare because of the errors on them, apparently a lot of them were smelted down to cast other coins. 

[TheGoldSovereign]

On 13/11/2019 at 21:26, Yorky said:

Evening all. 
I was wondering if anyone had seen an 1872 Queen Victoria young head die cast number 1? 
I believe these are rare because of the errors on them, apparently a lot of them were smelted down to cast other coins. 

Hi @Yorky, yes I have 6 of these, what exactly have you read about errors? What do you see?

[Yorky]

Hi @sg86 the top right of the crown the square imprint, also looks like a later smelt was poured at the time with the gold colour change quite noticeable, and there is a No 1 at the bottom with a rim running through it across the bottom. 

[TheGoldSovereign]

Hi @Yorky those are both just die clashes, quite common. The top bit by the crown is vicky's neck